Sender: | Cody Luna <luna_c666@yahoo.com> |
Subject: | 9/11 conspiracies |
Type: | Corrections |
Added: | Dec 01, 2010 |
Sent to: | Editing Committee |
hey dumbass..Stephen Jones didn't find iron microspheres 'in the paint
chips', actually, Stephen Jones wasn't the first person to discover the iron
microspheres at all (which are not 'in the paint chips' at all, but just lone
spheres of iron by themselves..)
The USGS found them first in 2005. They cataloged them in their atlas of world
trade center dust particles.
Here is the official list of dust particles collected by the USGS;
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2005/1165/table_1.html
here is the link to the image of the iron-rich microsphere, taken NOT BY STEPHEN
JONES, but by the USGS.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2005/1165/graphics/IRON-04-IMAGE.jpg
Your entire article smacks of ignorance of even ground-floor 9/11 conspiracy
theories. My suggestion; watch Blueprint for Truth, from
www.AE911truth.org
Here is part one of the 13 part video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b74naeawdCs
Then, if you want to debunk the theories, at least you know what the theories
are that you are trying to debunk..it helps a little.
Educate yourself. Then write what you want, just don't be so blatantly an agent
of propaganda, use the facts if you are so sure 9/11 truth is a lie. What do you
have to resort to character assassination and lies of omission/distortion for if
you are so sure 9/11 truthers are wrong? Huh?
Dear Cody:
You are wrong, as I'm well familiar with the claims of Steven (not "Stephen")
Jones. His claim is that "iron microspheres" indicate some sort of explosives or
"controlled demolition." That claim is false. You may want to review this paper
which refutes not only Jones's claims, but those of David Ray Griffin, another
"hero" to 9/11 Truthers who resorts to pushing spurious and unsupportable
claims:
http://www.jod911.com/drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf (The discussion on iron
"spherules" begins on page 160).
Furthermore, the whole "iron spherules" issue is idiotic and ignores the extreme
logical problems with the very concept of a 9/11 conspiracy. How did these
explosives get into the towers? It would have taken months of installation,
wiring, and pre-cutting of support columns--and you think this could have been
done in the largest office building in the world, where 100,000 people worked
daily, and not one of them noticed this activity going on?
Not a single one of these "charges" was observed BEFORE 9/11?
For an analysis of why "controlled demolition" claims, including Steven Jones's,
are not credible in the slightest, I suggest you look at this:
http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/911/what-do-we-know/
Why am I an "agent of propaganda?" Because I call out conspiracy theorists on
their false claims, mistakes, logical fallacies and stunted thinking? Or do you
call me that because I disagree with the way you think 9/11 happened, and anyone
who disagrees must by definition be a "shill," "brainwashed" or "sheeple?"
Muertos
A long email, but I'd rather be exhaustively thorough than leave anything to
speculation or misinterpretation.
You are an agent of propaganda because you are clearly misinformed about
what you are talking about, yet continue to act as if you are informed, and
utilize techniques of propaganda such as character assassination, distortion
of facts and bandwagon appeals to make your points. Correct yourself.
To start, let's ignore WHY the microspheres are there and any conspiracy
theories concerning them, let's talk about your inaccurate reporting of the
facts concerning these spheres.
THEY ARE NOT 'in the paint chips' as you claim. So there your claims are
completely, 100% false. They are just microspheres. Lone. Balls of iron. As
well, Steven Jones is not the only one who found them, in fact not even the
first. RJ Lee Group found them, the USGS found them, and any independent
observer who wants to examine the dust will also find them now. The fact
that they are there is not up for debate, WHY they are there, WHEN they got
there, and WHAT they mean is the focus of the 9/11 debate, try to keep up.
Let's get to your other appeals to reason;
Where are the WHISTLEBLOWERS? Where is the
evidence of CD?
As well, you have a specious claim that is just as unfounded and rhetorical
as any discussion on conspiracies, the 'fact' that 'someone would have
noticed' explosives or 'someone would have blown the whistle' from the
inside.
After the collapse they didn't LOOK for explosive remnants, thus of course
they did not find any. How do you find what you are not looking for? YOU
DON'T, unless you accidentally stumble across it, and that is provided that
you know what you are seeing when you stumble onto it. They also did not
find the black boxes from either flight into the WTC and they were looking
for them, and knew WHAT they looked like..so claiming that something
was absent from the site doesn't mean it was never there to begin with, as
clearly the planes had black boxes in them, right? If
you say 'they didn't find it there, they would have found it if it had been
there' about explosives, then the only logical conclusion one can draw is
that they didn't find the black boxes because they were never on the planes
right? No one would be so
dumb as to claim the black boxes weren't at the WTC to be found, and simply
were never located. LOST FOREVER. Like many of the victims' bodies and
personal belongings that also disappeared into thin air.
So they were looking for the black boxes and COULDN'T find THEM, but yet
they WEREN'T looking for explosive evidence and you claim they WOULD have
found IT had there been explosives. This is a logical fallacy, someone like
yourself who claims to debunk conspiracies should understand a thing or two
about logic. If the things that were being looked for the hardest went
undiscovered, claiming that explosives, because they were never looked for
and thus never discovered, must not exist because no one found anything
doesn't make sense..you don't find stuff you aren't looking for.
Yet, when Niels Harret and Steven Jones went looking for evidence of
explosives they found it; why hasn't anyone debunked the nano-thermite paper
yet? They haven't, in case you missed something. The claim that they are
paint chips doesn't hold water because WTC paint had large amounts of
chromium in it- the chips do not contain chromium. What are the chips made
of? Extremely uniform nano-sized particles, hexagonal plate structures of
aluminum, and rhomboid nano-sized particles of iron-oxide, suspended in a
silicon and carbon matrix. Paint does not use nano-sized ANYTHING, much less
aluminum. Nano-sized aluminum powder, as Van Romero, head of Los Alamos will
tell you, is a controlled substance. You have to have a license to get it,
and even then acquiring more than a few pounds is impossible.
WHY IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A STANDARD
DEMOLITION, and
why no one noticed anything suspiciousFirst, how many of those
100,000 people would even recognize a charge of RDX or, even worse, a layer
of nano thermite painted on a column? How many of those 100,000 people had
had any type of education regarding bombs and explosive devices, and how
many were being vigilant and looking for such devices in the WTC prior to
9/11? How many of the 100,000 people you claim 'could have or would have'
seen and reported something ever actually went into the bowels of the
building where the steel columns were raw and accessible? A very small
percentage, I'd wager, for any of the above.
I met someone online who claimed that their wife died in the south tower,
was trapped in the stairwell around the 70th floor, and called him claiming
to have seen explosions- hearsay, of course, but it illustrates a point- how
many possible eyewitnesses WHO MIGHT HAVE SEEN AND REPORTED EXPLOSIVES, of
those 100,000 employees, were killed that day? Who knows if some of the
3000+ dead people might have seen something, like any good cover-up the most
plausible witnesses are not alive to testify, everyone in the building
during the final collapse (when explosives would have been most noticeable)
died then and there.
The 'activity' that no one noticed? There was construction every day in the
WTC, entire floors were vacant and being renovated before being leased
again. That no one noticed 'unusual' activity in the WTC would be like
saying that "someone would have noticed the marine loading the gun he was
about to use to kill his platoon inside the barracks" where at any given
time 100 marines are loading and unloading their firearms without similar
malicious intent. In order for activity to be considered 'unusual' it has to
be outside the norm, and construction was an everyday thing at the WTC,
employees did not take notice of construction, and more than likely
intentionally ignored it.
Of course you also presume the 'controlled demo' theory to have been
undertaken as if a professional demo company was taking the building down as
a hired job, in which they go in and do cutting with torches before RDX
takes out the building- of COURSE they couldn't do such a thing IF the WTC
was rigged to blow, of COURSE that would be too obvious. We are talking
about a conspiracy, which would require clandestine demolition. Untruthers
should understand that the building is NOT going to fit every classic sign
of demolition- for very obvious reasons- and should stop denying the
possibility of controlled demo simply
because it was an unorthodox and unconventional-looking demolition.
Controlled demotiontions have two goals- bring the building down safely and
completely, regardless of the noise created or extensive fail-safes needed.
Demo companies over-rig a building to blow, to make sure that once they set
off the charges the building is going to come down FOR SURE. If the charges
go off and the building doesn't come all the way down, that is a HUGE
problem- now someone has to go in and rig it again, hoping that it doesn't
collapse on them, an extremely dangerous task. For this reason, CD companies
over-rig their demolitions, and they do so with the idea that they want the
building to come down in it's footprint. Again, for this event the safety of
the demolition was not priority (if it was CD). The only priority is to
bring down the building, and to do so as clandestinely as possible. Of
course it therefore wouldn't look like a controlled demo in alot of ways-
RDX would be avoided (it is loud and leaves tale-tell chemical signatures).
Absence of typical explosive devices
Another point you bring up is the absence of 'wiring', presumably you are
referring to detcord, a type of electrical fuse-wire, which has to be
connected to every charge and trace back to the sequence computer or trigger
box. Detcord does not burn hot enough to initiate a thermite reaction, so if
the charges were thermitic then detcord would not have been used. In fact,
the presumption that any kind of 'wiring' at all would have been used is
also inconsistent with the Modus Operandi a clandestine controlled demo- of
course they wouldn't use typical demolition materials that would have
obvious controlled demolition implications in the rubble! That would be a
glaring oversight! The more exotic and unrecognizable the explosive
materials and triggers used, the higher likelihood of not only having it not
discovered in planning and execution phases, but engaging in plausible
deniability when it is discovered..I
can't count the number of times I've seen people ridiculed for mentioning
'superdooperthermite' and it's 'magical ability to cut sideways' (not the
words of a truther but one of you guys)..none of which of course is as
implausible as it sounds when treated with such juvenile dismissal.
Superthermite exists, it isn't some magical thing, it isn't conjecture like
a gamma-ray-bomb or mini-nuke. Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory wrote
extensively on nano- and super-thermite in the late 90s.
Atypical detonators could include, but are not limited to, radio-frequency
devices like RC hardware or cell-phone technology. Terrorists use atypical
detonators all the time like cell phones for multiple obvious reasons, the
foremost being the lack of wires that will trace back to the detonator and
allow greater distance between the person detonating and the explosive
device. If your contention is that terrorists, and not the US Government,
attacked the building on 9/11, then terrorists having access to RDX and
detcord and thinking it wise to use them would be unlikely..cell-phone or
other remote detonation means could have been exploited, especially since
destroyed cell-phones would be commonplace in the rubble and would not raise
alarm.
How do you demolish a building without
making it look like a controlled demolition?
A few well-placed shaped
charges of thermite COULD
have cut through steel that would have otherwise been cut with a torch in a
professional demolition. The claim that the collapse would have taken
'hundreds of people' and 'hundreds of explosives' seems counter intuitive,
considering the official story, the
one you believe, only
required 10-15 floors worth of fire
damage, with out even cutting any columns, before the entire building
fell to dust.
If that is your theory,
that NO explosives were required yet 90% of the building, which was intact,
was compromised and destroyed by the failure of the other 10%, then by YOUR
theory, only enough demolition charges would be needed to do minimal damage
to 10-15 floors to initiate a global collapse.
Hell, a group of 5 people can lay charges on 10 floors in the elevator
shafts without anyone noticing.
Think about it- if the intent of the CD is to make it appear that the
building gradually weakened until it failed catastrophically from fire
damage, what type of explosive/incendiary would be best? Obviously, a
slow-acting (relative to RDX) incendiary device that would gradually weaken
the structure until catastrophic failure would be better than loud and
fast-acting explosives- what fits this description? Certainly not RDX or
other typical controlled demolition materials.
In fact, logically, if the building were
demolished in a controlled fashion they would CERTAINLY not use typical
controlled demolition materiel. Doing
so would be asking to get caught..the fact that no one found
explosive residue (like detcord, blasting caps and traces of RDX or other
common CD explosive) is not surprising and does not rule out clandestine
demo at all, and in fact is to the contrary; consistent with clandestine
controlled demo. The use
of thermite to demolish a building would have the appearance that the
structure was weakened by fire, as essentially it IS weakening the structure
with fire, albeit
fires hotter than office fires and jet fuel will burn.
FINALLY
Here is your favorite discussion of iron spherules, and why the points made
aren't entirely consistent, relevant or factual;
"As discussed previously, there is no
evidence at all for large amounts of melted
steel. If the spheres are formed
by melting steel, it must be surface melting or
some other highly localized process."
Appendix C of the FEMA report clearly shows steel I-beams that have been
melted through and reduced in thickness by nearly 50%. This 'sulfidation' is
explained away as mere contact with gypsum board or acid rain..both just as
unlikely as thermite to have caused the damage, and a hypothesis that has
not been successfully replicated. The second sentence is just as much
conjecture as the belief that thermite was used, considering the first is
not factually accurate and there is evidence of melted steel, large amounts
being irrelevant considering ANY melted steel should not be present; the
steel should not melt AT ALL. ANYWHERE.
"It is also not known when the iron
spheres were produced. The RJ Lee Group
report considers samples taken several
months after the collapses, and it
is certain
that torch-cutting of
steel beams as part of the cleanup process contributed some,
if not
all, of the spherules seen in these samples."
Here we have the author insomuch admitting that the iron spheres COULD have
(and even likely may have) come from steel beams, even though they identify
the mechanism behind creating them as 'cutting torches' after the collapse,
it acknowledges that the spheres from the beams "contributed some, if not
all, of the spherules seen in these samples." Of course, now they must
explain why the samples collected before the rescue operations contain
exactly the same amount of iron spheres as dust collected later, if their
contention is that 'some, if not all' of the spheres were created during
rescue and clean up.
The chain of custody for some of the dust includes having been collected, in
some cases 10 minutes, immediately after the towers collapsed. The iron
spheres in this dust are clearly not a result of cleanup, so the other
excuse is;
"There appear to be several
plausible candidate sources of the iron spherules in
office materials or other building
contents. Perhaps the most obvious is the fly
ash itself used in structural concrete, a
residue of combusted coal, which contains
iron spheres in a variety of sizes that
would have been liberated as the concrete
was destroyed. Another example is
magnetic printer toner, used to print financial
instruments, that could have been present
in printer cartridges or found in a large
volume of paper documents. This
candidate has the advantage of matching the
size, shape, uniformity, and
elemental composition of the observed spherules
from one report [242]. We also cannot
discount their origin in building contents,
rather than building structure, without
much more careful study."
Fly ash is iron oxide spheres, not pure iron. The report clearly says the
spheres were almost PURE iron, not iron oxide. If it was toner ink, they
have to explain how it got so far away so quickly, all the way to the
Brooklyn Bridge in less than 10 minutes where Jones' first sample was
collected on the hand rail of the pedestrian walkway. That is a hell of alot
of toner to have made it all the way on the pyroclastic wave out to the
Brooklyn Bridge, when theoretically the concrete and steel should have been
FALLING ONTO the printers and crushing them under the rubble, rather than
exploding them outward nearly a mile away. Likewise, the explanation that
the spheres could come from combusted paper holds little weight, as we
clearly saw most of the paper was liberated from the building without so
much as being singed, and clearly would not account for the wealth of
microspheres in the dust.
I could go on about this report's inconsistencies and misconceptions, but I
don't think I have to. The point is proven that this report raises as many,
if not more, questions than it answers. You seem eager to stop asking
questions..
Perhaps you should know that I
am not a conspiracy theorist for the sake of being a conspiracy theorist. I
hate stupid conspiracies, the 'fake' moon landing, the 'jesus wasn't real'
or the 'ancient atomic bombs' crap. I dig you there. I also hated 9/11
conspiracy theorists for a long time and argued vehemently against the
prospect, a close friend of mine disappointed me greatly when he tried to
show me the Loose Change video some many years ago. Yet, as more science and
literature is published, more research is done, and the more the government
lies, obfuscates and covers up, I find it increasingly difficult to be
dismissive. If, at this point, you are still dismissive too, then you
regrettably do not understand the science; how can we expect a nation in
which 2/3 of the population don't believe in evolution to understand the
science involved in the WTC disaster? If it was a conspiracy of such
magnitude, no doubt this nations lack of scientific understanding was to be
counted on.
Academia and Conspiracies
Why aren't other academics coming to the foreground in support? Nevermind
the 1300+ licensed and degreed architects and engineers who signed the
AE911truth petition, they obviously don't count as 'academia' to you.
It is public taboo to even question 9/11, and even moreso to claim the
official story is a lie. Partly because people died, and we 'never speak ill
of the dead' out of respect for the living. Yet, here we have many many
'official' lies. First, the claims that only 180 mph tests of 707s flying
into the WTC had ever been conducted, (no one could have predicted a
full-speed collision, only 'lost in a fog, landing aircraft'). Then, even
NIST had to admit that they did test a 600mph collision in 1964, and the WTC
would have survived the impact according to these tests, even though
resulting fire was apparently not considered.
Another lie by untruthers is that there are no confirmed reports of molten
metal, yet there is eyewitness testimony, photographic and video evidence to
the contrary. What caused temperatures capable of turning steel i-beams into
salmon-hot glowing material? No one explains this process 'officially'. What
caused the shower of 'aluminum' to come from the 80th floor? Why was it so
hot it was yellow and stayed glowing while it fell 60+ stories? What caused
such temperatures? Aluminum doesn't glow at it's melting temperature, so if
it was aluminum it was way above it's melting temperature, by nearly 1000
degrees. Why would it pool, in liquid form, for nearly 45 minutes and get
superheated before running out of the building? Wouldn't there have also
been some metallic-looking, non-glowing molten aluminum falling, perhaps
earlier, or at least along with the super-heated, glowing-hot material? No
official explanation here..
Yet another lie was that the buildings did not fall at free-fall
acceleration, which again is a claim that NIST was forced to correct after
being forced to view the work of David Chandler, specifically WTC7. NIST and
FEMA and the 9/11 Commission are all flawed. Some of the data was treated
properly, while other data is wholly ignored.
The argument that Niels Harret's or Steven Jones' paper is not
'peer-reviewed' seems hypocritical when you realize that NIST's computer
models of the collapses were not peer-reviewed; the software is available
but they won't reveal the specs and data that they plugged into the program
to create a global collapse, effectively making it impossible to check their
work and independently verify it. Of course, anyone who wants to review
Jones' work is free to do so, they simply have not done so yet, except for
those who agree with him which you also label as 'pseudoscientists'
too..what does a scientist have to do to both agree with Jones and not be
considered a 'pseudoscientist' by you? Or is that the definition of
pseudoscience, that they agree with Steven Jones?
If you respect science over government authority, you should be questioning
the official story of the events of 9/11.
If you aren't, well, we know why. None are more hopelessly enslaved than
those who falsely believe they are free.
At the very least, 9/11 deserves a new investigation. The canards you lay
out, that it didn't look like a controlled demo, that there are no (obvious)
evidence to suggest controlled demo, that CD would have been impossible
because of the number of explosive devices needed and people to set them up,
none of those are any more factual and logically-fool-proof ideas than any
of the theories you try to dismiss with them.
You should correct your hit-piece..example, Isaac Newton believed in
Astrology, even rebuking someone for ridiculing astrology by saying "I have
studied astrology, you sir have NOT!" Does the fact that Newton believed
that the phases of the moon and mars affected human biology and relations
make his rules of motion less valid? Does not every action have equal and
opposite reaction still? Objects in motion remain in motion, and stationary
objects remain stationary, until an outside force acts on them, even now?
What does it matter what Newton thought about Astrology, or anything else
for that matter, if his theory of motion was correct? What does it matter
what a scientist believes if when he commits something to science he does so
with respect to the scientific method?
IT DOESN'T.
Then why are you bringing up all the old shit Jones did to discredit him? It
is obvious that you have serious concerns that his science has dangerous
implications, but that you are also incapable of defeating the science by
scientific merits alone instead resorting to propaganda tactics and
character assassination. Discredit the science, not the scientist. The fact
that you attack the messenger and not the message clearly shows you are not
scientific yourself. Scientists are not superhuman, and will make mistakes
and even believe lies themselves occasionally. They are not perfect people
and should not be expected to be, no one is. Science, though, is insulated
from influence of the beliefs and faults of scientists by engaging in
peer-review and sticking to the scientific method. Discrediting Jones isn't
going to discredit his science, and if you think you can do that, you can do
better than by attacking Jones' career history.
Good day.
PS. I don't think referring me to an article you wrote is going to clear
anything up, as it is evident that you are misinformed EVEN OF THE OFFICIAL
STORY, as evidenced by this statement;
"(Also an interesting general demonstration of how debris fell onto other
buildings, which is relevant to collapse of WTC7)."
First, no debris from either plane was capable of reaching 7, the flight
paths did not intersect with building 7..WTC 1 was hit from north to south,
WTC7 is north of WTC1, and thus on the opposite side from the debris that
was ejected from WTC1, and WTC2 was hit with the plane flying northeast, and
WTC7 was due north from this building, also keeping WTC7 out of the debris
field from either plane impact. Not to mention, even the NIST report claims
that column 79, a column that was on the opposite side of the building from
the WTC complex and the damage caused by WTC1's collapse, is the culprit for
the collapse. There was no damage to WTC7 from aircraft, ergo the fact that
aircraft debris fell onto WTC5, the building closer to WTC2 and NE from it
when WTC 7 was across another street and NorthWEST of WTC5 (and the
direction of aircraft debris) is IRRELEVANT to the collapse of WTC7.
THE FIRES caused WTC7 to collapse, not the damage to the building or
aircraft debris. Now, how did the fires in WTC7 weaken the steel
sufficiently considering it didn't have the benefit of having the
explanation that the plane impact knocked off all the fire-proofing
material? I'll leave that to your next uninformed hit piece on the matter.
Wow. In the over 4,000 words of your response, you've managed to hit every
trope and cliche used by conspiracy theorists to discredit those who attack
their asinine theories. To the extent this is a request to withdraw or rewrite
what you characterize as "hit pieces," which is I assume your main purpose in
writing me, don't hold your breath. My characterization of Jones and his
theories is accurate.
I'm not a scientist, but rather a historian. Nevertheless I'm not ignorant of
the academic process as applied to science or unable to recognize bad science
when I see it. Jones and his theories are simply wrong and have been proven so
many times. How do I know this? Well, aside from the fact that in order for him
to be correct, everything else that we know for certain about 9/11 must
necessarily be wrong. But in case that doesn't sway you...
Well, try this refutation for one:
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/commentsonstevenjones'hypothesesbydavero
This for another: http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3385636&postcount=96
Another: http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3392539&postcount=403
Or this: http://ldspatriot.wordpress.com/2006/12/15/911-steven-jones-and-me/
Or perhaps this comprehensive, peer-reviewed scientific analysis of why
"controlled demolition" on 9/11 is impossible:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Bazant_WTC_Collapse_What_Did__Did_No.pdf
You also make the classic mistake that 9/11 Truthers often fall for: trumpeting
one piece of so-called "scientific evidence" as conclusive, as if it, by itself,
can overcome the mountains of other evidence that indicate 9/11 happened as a
result of Osama's hijackers, and not as part of any "controlled demolition." It
is this mountain of evidence, which Jones utterly refuses to address, that is by
itself conclusive--meaning that we can prove what happened on 9/11 without ever
once mentioning "iron microspheres."
For example:
Can your theory explain, without resorting to conjecture, why Osama bin Laden
confessed to conceiving and planning 9/11? Mine can. Yours can't.
Can your theory explain, without resorting to conjecture, why there is so much
evidence of the guilt of the Al Qaeda hijackers? Mine can. Yours can't.
Can your theory explain why observers on-site predicted that the towers would
collapse before they did? Mine can. Yours can't.
If you accept that there was a conspiracy to blow up the main WTC towers, you
must necessarily accept that WTC7 was also intentionally demolished. Can you
explain why? My theory fully explains WTC7. Yours can't; you have to resort to
conjecture to argue why WTC7 would even be a target.
Can your theory explain, without resorting to conjecture, what happened to the
Pentagon and flight 93? Mine can. Yours can't.
Can your theory explain, without resorting to conjecture, who did in the first
place? Mine can. Yours can't.
Can your theory explain why the plot to carry out 9/11 could be kept contained,
intact and secret, without leaks and without being discovered, long enough to
actually be carried out? Mine can. Yours can't. You have to resort to ridiculous
tautologies like "no one saw the detonators or explosives because the
conspirators hid them really, really well."
Can you explain why your theory, considered in total, is illogical, implausible,
internally inconsistent, and unsupported by any empirical evidence? You can't. I
can: it's illogical, implausible, internally inconsistent, and unsupported by
any empirical evidence because it never happened.
Yours and Jones's theory rests on one very slender reed: iron microspheres. If
those iron microspheres came from any other source OTHER than
super-duper-mega-secret-Buck-Rogers-nano-thermate, you're out of business.
That's it. That's your whole theory. Iron microspheres MUST be evidence of
explosives.
Conversely, take what I say happened, and take away from it any single piece of
what I rest my case upon--hijacker confessions, phone calls from the planes,
eyewitness reports, documents, bodies of the hijackers, pieces of the plane
wreckage, Osama's political pronouncements, hijackers training at flight school,
photos, videos, etc.--and you STILL have a conclusive case that what you term
"the official story" is in fact what happened. That's even WITHOUT scientific
analyses such as the NIST report, the Bazant paper, etc. Even if the science of
how and why the plane strikes and fires caused the WTC collapses was a total
mystery--which it very clearly is not--there is still such an insurmountable
mountain of evidence about what happened on 9/11 that we would STILL be forced
to conclude that what you term "the official story" is in fact what happened.
I've got Osama's confession, the voluntary confessions of the other hijackers,
thousands of eyewitnesses, numerous peer-reviewed scientific papers, literally
tons of wreckage, reams of documents, DNA evidence (from the hijackers,
passengers and WTC victims), and a vast array of respected scientific opinion on
my side.
What have you got? A couple of paint chips, and the opinion of some discredited
scientist who believes in cold fusion. That's it. That's all you have.
It doesn't help your case that you throw at me every trope in the conspiracy
theorist's well-used chest of cliches, and that you exhibit the usual mental
incapacities of conspiracy theorists, in spades. You accuse me of "propaganda."
You say I just don't understand. You egregiously abuse the concept of logical
fallacies. You are incapable of distinguishing a legitimate questioning of
someone's credibility from an "ad hominem attack." ("Ad hominem" are a
conspiracy theorist's favorite Latin words, even outstripping "cui buono," which
they also don't understand). Most of all, you simply can't tell the difference
between a good source and a bad one. Consequently, you engage entirely in
result-driven thinking. If it supports the "official story" (and no one except
conspiracy theorists ever uses those words), it must be wrong, by definition. If
it supports your crackpot conspiracy theory, it must be correct, also by
definition.
I used to be a conspiracy theorist myself. I used to believe in toxic shit like
this. This garbage corrodes peoples' minds and destroys their lives. Nothing
good can come of it. Hopefully you can climb out of this rabbit hole. It starts
with thinking about how colossally idiotic the belief is that you've signed onto
and how impossible it is that it actually happened. It's a difficult position to
come back from, but I hope you do someday.
Muertos
I'm not talking about "No plane" theories. I'm not saying hijackers didn't run
planes into the buildings. No one is, except the morons.
Can your theory also explain why Osama Bin Laden also initially denied having
been behind the attacks, and why the FBI has not charged him with the WTC
attacks?
If so many people correctly predicted that the towers would collapse, why were
so many news media and civilians allowed so close to it prior to it's collapse?
Explain this..First, that's not at all what I said. IF
they were there, no one saw thembecause;
1. they were in the recesses of the building when most building employees, apart
from maintenance, never saw the core columns, the perimeter columns etc close
up. It wasn't a new building- those areas had been off-limits to most of the
100,000 employees
2. Of the 100,000 employees who might have had access to and reason to enter
areas of the building that would need to be rigged with explosives, you have to
presume that they would know what they were looking at, presuming they even saw
it.
3. In the case of unconventional explosives (PETN, for example, is a simple
white putty-who, lacking explosives experience, would think a white putty
suspicious?) the more exotic the explosive material, the less conspicuous the
item would be. Everyone who watched looney tunes would recognize a bundle of
dynamite with a ticking alarm clock on it, fewer would recognize a satchel of
RDX, and even fewer still would recognize a steel box with thermite in it.
4. Even if someone had seen something resembling an explosive charge, the fact
that it was in a working skyrise would have caused them to immediately question
if what they were seeing was an explosive device; if you don't expect it to be
there, you are less likely to see it, and more likely to doubt that it is what
it looks like if it isn't supposed to be there. The fact that no one (who lived
to tell) saw ACTUAL explosive charges in the building doesn't mean SHIT. Again,
this would not contradict a clandestine controlled demolition, it would coincide
with a clandestine controlled demo.
WHY THE FUCK, if they are going to blow up the WTC, WOULD THEY PUT RECOGNIZABLE
EXPLOSIVE DEVICES IN PLAIN SIGHT!? ARE WE PRESUMING THEY ARE STUPID TOO?!
I'm not.WTC7 housed many government offices that, in the event that the
WTC was demolished with inside help, might have held files/documents that would
implicate individuals. Motives are always conjecture, BTW. Even explicitly
stated motives are not necessarily true, ergo when you try to ask 'WHY' someone
'WOULD' do something, you are resorting to conjecture even about Osama Bin Laden
or Mohammed Atta's 'claims' of 'motivation'. There are plenty of reasons it
would be targeted..it was the FBI and CIA headquarters for NYC, as well as
having financial offices that were later tied to Lehman Bros and the global
economic collapse. We know that Morgan Stanley and Goldmann Sachs used 9/11 to
'lose' documents that would have implicated them in insider trading etc. There
are many possible motivations, but as I said- you cannot divine someone's
motivation any more than I can. No one can.No, it also includes; witness
testimony and photographs of molten and orange/salmon-hot metal, something that
does not occur in run-of-the-mill fires, video evidence of anomalies familiar to
controlled demo and unfamiliar to gravity-driven collapses, the fact that the
roofline of the buildings did not decelerate suggesting that there was never an
impact with the lower 90% of the building, and THE PRESENCE OF NANO-THERMITE IN
THE DUST. Explain that?
http://algoxy.com/psych/
http://www.reopen911.info/
Note; the nanothermite is not paint, it does not contain chromium as WTC paint
does, and it reacts violently in a calorimeter (a very narrow and high peak)
where paint does not react and has a low and wide peak. It also creates
nano-spheres of iron when burned, whereas paint simply turns to ash.
http://investigate911.org/
Not all of my cockamamie theories are totally devoid of evidence. I don't
believe in theories that are devoid of evidence, that's why I'm an agnostic.
Perhaps you should read Neils Harret's paper on nanothermite, you clearly have
not.
You seem to have missed my point in its entirety. You appear to be a very
standard issue Truther, engaging in entirely result-driven analysis that leads
you to the conclusion you desperately want to believe rather than the one
warranted by the totality of the evidence.
You suggest I should make a distinction between your theories and the "no
planers." Why? There's not very much practical difference between you.
You both believe in a vast conspiracy headed by shadowy all-powerful figures
with unlimited capability to finance, coerce, persuade and conceal--which is
totally contrary to how real conspiracies work in the real world.
You both believe 9/11 was committed with fantasy weapons that do not exist--in
your case, super-duper-Buck-Rogers-thermite, and the no-planers case, ray guns
from outer space.
You both follow crackpot junk scientists whose conclusions have been rejected by
mainstream science--in your case Steven Jones, in the no-planers case Judy Wood.
You both ignore the serious logical flaws in your theories, such as why, if the
whole thing was a conspiracy, airplanes would have been necessary to the cover
story at all, when the same exact result could have been achieved with a far
less risky and complicated plan.
You both ignore the obvious culpability of the real architects of 9/11, like
Osama bin Laden, by resorting to ludicrous "sacred list" arguments like "why
wasn't Osama indicted by the FBI?" (Discussed here, incidentally:
http://conspiracyscience.com/blog/2010/07/18/the-sacred-list-an-illustration-of-the-illogic-of-conspiracy-theorists/)
You both rely on erroneous pseudoscientific arguments to support what is, at its
heart, nothing more than a paranoid conspiracy theory with no evidence in its
favor.
Why, then, should I treat you any differently than some other Truther who
believes in some other demonstrably false theory? Whether you think there were
bombs in the towers or whether beam weapons from space were used, both are
equally ridiculous, equally irrational, and equally false. There is no
meaningful difference between what you believe and the "no-plane" theories you
dismiss as moronic. Yes, only morons believe in no-plane theories. But your own
theory is equally moronic. What's the difference?
And yeah, regarding WTC7, I'm sure that the conspirators decided to blow up the
building to hide documents. Because, whenever I need to get rid of incriminating
documents, I just destroy the building they're housed in, instead of using a
paper shredder.
I will not change a word of what I wrote simply because some conspiracy theorist
disagrees with it. The fact that conspiracy theorists disagree with it means I'm
doing something right. ConspiracyScience exists for the purpose of exposing the
fraud, illogic, paranoia and irrationality of theories such as yours and to
speak the truth about charlatans like Steven Jones, Judy Wood, Richard Gage,
Alex Jones and Peter Merola. My essays are quite effective in serving that
purpose. Thanks for your feedback.
Muertos